[...] ties back into the idea that if you say you’re a 10 man raider but you do 25s on the side, you’re a bit of a cheater or a phony. When I posted on this subject last April one of the common responses I got was “I enjoy [...]

[...] friendly competitors? Strict 10 man raiding guilds can work off the Guild Ox ranking data. But 10 man guilds that don’t meet the strict criteria (because they dabble in 25s) don’t really show up anywhere – they’re expected to [...]

[...] Keeva complained that her 10 man raiding guild were being unfairly disqualified from 10 man progression rankings [...]

I used to think that the original GuildOx strict 10-man rules were not strict enough, but now that they’ve changed it I think they are too strict. We would have hit the cumulative wall with our puggers even if we hadn’t done 3 ToC bosses in 25man as a guild. We had this random occurence that pretty much every single raider in the guild had signed up to the same night, so we decided to go in with everyone rather than benching some and making 2×10. Everyone knew it was just a fluke and unlikely to happen again, it was just fun to do something different. Afterwards we saw the new strict rules.

However in Crusaders Coliseum the problem is that 10 mans are dropping the same badges, even the same amount as 25, and the heroics are dropping a lot of extra trophies. Therefore 25 man guilds can and will push for 50 try kills because it will ultimately boost raid gear and thus raid performance somewhat in the 25 man heroics. This clouds the 10 man achievements once real ’10 man only’ guilds come along and want some recognition for their efforts.

As far as I can see the only thing blizzard could do to curb this is make the 10mans more unattractive for guilds who have access to 25mans.

Cows´s last blog ..Why is he climbing the mountain?

I see no reason for people to be annoyed with it, after all they will still have there 10 man kills displayed in the progression thread.

As for the gear ilvls being as reason to make a guild not eligble for 10 man only.. well thats stupid.. If 10 man only progression cannot be tracked because of the gear being given away in TOC25 then the same should happen with ulduar 25 hardmodes, shouldn’t it. Seeing as pre 3.2 no-one was running around in 245 gear.

Anyway just my 2c, probably doesnt make much sense and spelling is probably way below par. Tired as hell.

Right now there is no way to tell which guilds are 25 and 10 unless you know them well, or you look through another post to see what they list themselves as. This way, you’d be able to tell the difference right on the progression.

My boyfriend is going to hold this over me for a long time, because he was one of the people to suggest marking the 10s. But I really would have liked a ladder just for the 10mans. But there comes a point where you realise there are far more people interested in objecting than are willing to come forward in support, so I relent:

As much as I would prefer to see a separate ladder, if people think that is redundant/too much work etc, could we compromise:

- add a [10] (or similar) to the 10 man guilds
- add a [10*S] (or similar) to the 10 man guilds who remain on GuildOx’s strict list

I’d really love to see a separate list, but if there’s a lot of opposition or it seems pointless/too much work – then can we at least mark the guilds that are 10s and strict 10s? That way people can see at a glance on the 10man list who the leading guilds are, wherever they are in the main list. It will also show which guilds avoid 25s entirely and do things “properly” – and that way nobody can say that the other 10s are trying to cheese 10mans somehow through the occasional pug.

By looking at the list you’d be able to see who’s leading the entire realm for 10man bosses, who’s leading out of the 10man guilds, and who’s leading out of the strict guilds, in the one list.

This would be minimal additional work for Alithea (the occasional check of GuildOx) but still have a similar outcome to creating a separate list – with recognition for the 10s guilds, and further recognition for the strict 10s.

Surely this is something people wouldn’t object to?

Keeva´s last blog ..New rule: if you PuG TOC25, you’re cheating on the 10s ladder.

It’s unfair to put ["pure" 10mans] and [10mans who pug] into the same bracket.

And yet – it’s not at all a problem to put 10mans into the same bracket with (and expect them to compete against) guilds running 25man hardmodes – this is perfectly fair?

The former is somehow a huge problem and completely unfair, but the latter can be ignored entirely?

You don’t see the inequality there?

Now I have relentless giggles.
Keeva´s last blog ..New rule: if you PuG TOC25, you’re cheating on the 10s ladder.