24hours and counting on my migraine, so I can’t make any promises regarding coherency here. But I wanted to share my (initial) thoughts on Blizzard’s announcement that in Cataclysm they will be putting 25s and 10s on the same lockout, with the same loot.

Summary from WoW.com:

* 10- and 25- man raids in Cataclysm will share the same lockout
* Normal versus Heroic mode will be chosen on a per-boss basis in Cataclysm raids, the same way it works in Icecrown Citadel
* 10- and 25- man bosses will be close in difficulty
* 10- and 25- man bosses will drop the exact same items
* 25-man bosses will drop a higher quantity of loot, but not quality
* Content will continue to be gated
* First Cataclysm raids will be tuned for players in dungeons blues and crafted items



10 man raiders have always been the red-headed step-child

First of all, it’s not a big surprise. Giving all healers dispels, the creation of Magelust, consolidating buffs – it all points to “take the player, not the class” and making it easier to fill a 10man group – without missing out on key buffs and abilities. 10 man raiders have been crying out for a long time that it’s unfair that they work hard for their boss kills – often with inferior loot – and despite Blizzards previous claims that 10 mans were a viable “branch” of raiding, they still fell short and were not as difficult, and didn’t give similar rewards.

On the other side of the street, you have 25man raiders rightly claiming that 25man raids are harder to coordinate – it’s harder to wrangle 25 bums into seats, for a start. Harder to keep recruitment running, harder to deal with attrition, etc. There’s usually more drama in 25mans, more cliques, more pressure on officers to “run” things (when we were a 10 man guild, nobody had to run anything – the guild practically ran itself).

So part of me believes that 25man raiders deserve more because it is undeniably harder to run a 25man raid team and 25man raiding guild.

But the other part of me believes that if Blizzard really does want 10man raiding to be parallel to 25man raiding in terms of skill (etc) then something has to give. Giving 10 man raiders inferior loot always made them feel like it wasn’t “real” raiding. I remember the Valanyr debates – why can’t 10 man raiders get one, too? Obviously because 25man raiders would go run 10s for multiple maces – just as they would run multiple instances for extra loot if it was made equal to the 25man gear – and obviously that is unfair. And 25man raiders would often claim positions on the 10 man progression ladder, wearing their 25man loot (that won’t be a problem anymore, since we’ll all be wearing the same stuff – 25man raiders won’t have a head start on 10 man fights through superior gear).

So what’s the choice? Either continue as we are now, with 10man raids being (unfortunately) inherently inferior, or change it so that they truly are in parallel with 25s.

Evidently Blizzard really does what the 10 man raiders to have their raids without feeling like it’s a consolation prize, when they should really be doing “real” raids with the “real” raiders.


They want more people to see more content

Anyone remember 10man Stratholme? I loved that place with 10 people. It was a great size. But they changed the 10 man dungeons because it was too difficult to form a group from Trade. Making it 5 man made it much easier for groups to form, which meant more groups seeing the content.

This is the same. Bringing 10s in line with 25s means more people getting a chance to do it. Not restricting it to the people who have and run large guilds. Allowing small groups of friends to raid. I remember back in Kara, playing with my friends – I loved that place. But I always felt like I was lagging behind the “real” raiders because I wasn’t in 25man raids.

10s are more fun, with less hassle, a closer group, and less chance of you having to drag half a dozen slackers around for free loot. I loved it when we were a 10 man guild.

So, honestly, I like it. Throw your stones, I don’t care. And I’m a 25man raider!


Less pressure to cram it all in

These days, I never get to do 10s. I still haven’t killed LK on 10, despite him being killed by our guild weeks and weeks ago. Why? Because we have one group that raids at midnight on (I can’t do that), and another group that is already set in stone and I only ever get invited if the other druid is away. It’s not fun being on the bench permanently. The only chance I get is if there is a third part-alts run, perhaps on a weekend. And I feel obliged to go because I want those achievements, I want to say that I’ve done it. And because I do need some of the gear for my other spec. And then someone is away, and we can’t finish it off tonight. Or tomorrow. There goes another week that I don’t get to finish the instance.

I’m left feeling ripped off that I can’t get a group for 10s, while other people can. And why? Because it’s there. Because the achievements beckon. Because there’s a bit of gear, I guess. And more badges. I feel obliged to do it.. and I feel really annoyed and upset when I miss out on a week.

If that option/obligation is taken away – well, I’ll be honest – YEEHAW.

Some people are upset about “missing out” – ie if you choose to do 25s, you’ll “miss out” on 10s. You’re not missing out on something that doesn’t exist anymore (a second lockout). We never had parallel 10 and 25 raids in TBC. There were 10man raids, and there were 25s. We didn’t have the same instance for both sizes. I think at first, it seemed like a good idea to be able to choose; it seemed like it would give people the choice to be a 10 or a 25man raider. But all that really happened is that 10 man raiders felt ripped off, and 25man raiders felt obliged to do double or quadruple the raiding each week.

I am not a fan of double (or quadruple) raid lockouts. I feel obliged to run them – as many serious raiders do – to maximise my character. And that’s not even bringing alts into the picture. Two or four runs of the same instance per week – per character – is not fun. I can’t say I’ll be sad to see the back of that.


The near death of 25s?

I don’t buy the argument that 10man loot is poorer because the fights are easier. If Blizzard can balance 40 man raids to be difficult for 40 people, and 25man raids to be difficult for 25 people, then they can balance 10 man raids for 10 people. Especially with the changes to buffs etc.

However, I do know that it is harder to pull together a 25man guild, and to keep a 25man guild running, keep recruitment up, keep the bench healthy, etc. But I still don’t think that should mean free ponies.

I do agree that extra gold and badges won’t be enough to encourage people to do 25mans. 10man raids are easier to put together, more fun to run, with less drama, less noise on vent (I ran last night with a migraine and vent made me want to curl up in the dark and die). I think that this change will be the death of many 25man raids – because there just won’t be enough incentive to bother with all that hassle, when you can do the same encounters, for the same loot, but with a smaller and tighter-knit group.

Heck, it’s hard enough now with 25man heroic loot to get people to turn up – why would anyone turn up to a 25man raid with more noise, more people to organise, more hassle… when you can go to 10s and get the same stuff, just fewer pieces (which won’t matter much, since the raid will be half the size – more items is only to make sure the raids are outfitted at roughly the same pace – it doesn’t mean everyone will gear up super fast in 25s)?

I’m not sure how they can make it more attractive to 25man raiders, without simply going around in circles to make 10s feel downtrodden again. If you give the 25man raiders anything more than the same loot but higher quantities – say, a mount or a title – it’s just like it was before, with the 10man raiders clearly being second-class, and making them feel obliged to do 25man raids for the better rewards.


Why bother?

I loved 40 mans. I miss 40 mans. But there’s no denying that they were a royal pain in the butt to put together. Not to mention incredibly frustrating when you had 38 people online and had to cancel because you were just short of being able to run MC. As much as it made me sad to say goodbye to 40 man raids.. I knew it was mostly for the best. And as much as I do enjoy 25man raids, they also come with their share of pain. And, frankly, these days I am beginning to feel that the pain outweighs the supposed glory of being able to claim victory over a 25man sized raid encounter rather than a 10man sized one. I think I’m over it.

If the 10man raids really are equal in difficulty, then I would love to do them. At this stage in my WoW career, I am far more interested in killing dragons with friends than being #1 on the 25man charts. Sure I love being a peacock at times, standing around in heroic 25man gear and getting comments – but having fun with my friends is so much more important than showing off my pixels. All I ever wanted was to know that my (our) skill was competitive – and you can’t do that in the current 10mans – they are seen by many people as the ezmode/casual option.

I just want to be at the pinnacle of raiding – whatever that is. If the 10man fights require the same skill (and aren’t seen as the “ezmode version”), then I will quite happily give up competing on the 25man ladder – because it won’t matter anymore. Whether or not they are equal remains to be seen, though.

I believe that they only reason people will do 25s is to be able to say they’ve done it, on the realm progression list, and, presumably, if there are 25man achievements separate to 10 man achievements (god I hope not – or I’ll STILL feel obliged to do both raids, over time).

I’m certainly not going to make assumptions or decisions for my guild, so far ahead of time. But with the trouble we go through week to week trying to fill a 25man raid – I seriously doubt that a chalk mark on the wall and some check marks on an achievement list will be enough to keep a 25man team running strong in Cataclysm.


And if I said that thought upset me, I’d be a big, fat liar.



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