When I posted on this subject last April one of the common responses I got was “I enjoy 10mans more but I raid 25s for the better gear.” I find that statement to be nonsensical. Does this person truly prefer 10mans over 25mans? In my opinion they do not, and their actions prove it.

While this person may prefer the 10man size over the 25man size, their actions prove that they value the 25man gear more then they value the 10man size. So they are not being forced to participate in an activity that they don’t enjoy. If that was the case they would stop.


My rebuttal: It’s perfectly acceptable for someone to make that statement – that they prefer 10s but still do 25s for the gear. This is not nonsensical at all. What is nonsensical, or perhaps just extremely naïve, is the statement that if they don’t enjoy a particular raid, they would stop. History shows us that this is simply not how the game works (and this is what Blizzard is trying to fix).


Why I prefer 10s, but keep doing 25s

So why the heck do I do 25s, if I prefer 10s?

A few reasons. First and foremost, I love my guild, I love raiding with my guild, and they raid 25mans. They do 10s on the side, of course, but these are often late at night, or full, so 10man raiding is sporadic. I want to raid with them, so I raid 25s. I could leave and find a cozy little 10 man guild, but my buddies wouldn’t be in it, so I don’t want to.

Second, to kill dragons. Until a while ago, I was still very competitive and wanted to “win” on the realm progression ladder. Not so much, these days. And, once, I was hung up on the fact that 25man raiding was “real” raiding (unfortunately – this is not a jab at 10man raiders), and I didn’t want to settle for anything less than the pointy edge of the game. More and more, though, I wish I could just raid 10s for fun rather than 25s for progression.

Third, to improve my character. Inexorable was a 10man guild through TOC, and I really enjoyed it. But wearing 10man gear felt unfinished; it’s like still having a Heroism badge item in your gear, or an ilvl 200 crafted epic; it might do the job OK, but you won’t be happy until you replace it with something that is better.

Now, some (many) people improve their gear so that they can show it off on the bank steps, or compare themselves with others, compete on the Gearscore ladders, on the wow logs rankings, or to see if they can get a new crit Eviscerate record. I don’t. I improve my gear because I enjoy working towards the next step – whatever that is. If my boots are a tier under what’s available, then I want to upgrade them. If I’ve been stuck with the same offhand since Naxx, I want to upgrade it – not so I can kick ass on the meters or put my spellpower over 9000 – but because it’s the next thing on my list to “fix”. I won’t be happy until I’m wearing BiS gear, not because I want to be uber, but because I enjoy that process of continuous improvement – it’s what keeps me playing.

Obviously, increased numbers come with upgrades, so without trying, I am improving my numbers, getting bigger crits, pulling higher figures on the meters. But I don’t strive for gear for those purposes.

For many people, this is difficult or even impossible to understand. I’m sure some will think I’m flat out lying when I say I don’t do it for the numbers.

They believe that 10man raiders go do 25man raids because they want bigger numbers, or to epeen in higher levels of gear. Some do. I do not.


Stopping short of the finish line

Wearing 10 man gear when there is better equipment available made me feel like I was stopping short of the mark. It made me anxious. Better gear was out there – I could theoretically keep improving my character – but not in the 10man raids. I didn’t NEED the gear in order to continue running our 10man raids; I wanted it because I am not satisfied with “BiS (out of what is available in 10mans)”.

For 10man strict raiders, that list IS their BiS list. They’re not settling for second best – that is their BiS shopping list. They have a finite list of items to work towards, from the same content they are running as normal.

But non-strict 10man raiders are kinda stuck in limbo.. they could write down a BiS-from-10s list, but those “real” BiS items are still out there, available through PuGs or GKP runs.


I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t be able to relate to this feeling, and would simply put it down to me wanting moar epix. But it’s not that. The idea of spending ages working on your character but still never quite being able to finish it off properly – well, to quote one of Graylo’s commenters, it just sucks.

As another commenter said – “When 25s have better gear, people feel obliged to raid 25s to get it, as “sticking to 10s” feels like an arbitrary stopping point.” I couldn’t have said it any better – arbitrary is exactly it. It feels like you’ve stopped short, stalled.


Nobody is forcing you to do something you dislike

Nobody is actually obliged to do raids that they don’t want to do. Gray’s argument is, “if you don’t like X, don’t do it” – ie, if you prefer 10s and don’t like 25s, stop doing 25s, silly. It’s logical. And it’s what many people want, too – we don’t want to grind instances because we feel obliged to.

But historically, that’s just not how it works. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn’t. At least not so far.

Look at TOC. Think about the thousands of people who ran four lockouts of TOC every week (more, if they did alt runs), loathing it, burning out on it, despising it. Wanting to punch Jaraxxus in his demonic happy place for never giving up the damn Solace. But they kept doing it, even when there was no challenge left, no more achievements, just a grind. Why? Why keep doing something that you hate so much? Gear, obviously.

At this point it probably sounds like I’m looping back and contradicting myself, agreeing with Graylo that gear is more important than my personal preference to run 10s. My point is basically that Gray (as I interpret it) is saying that my lust for epics keeps me going back to 25s, and if I truly disliked them, I would stop – but I don’t, because I want shinies (or numbers). This is an easy conclusion to make, because many people DO lust for epics and continue to run content solely for this reason.

But I can put my hand on my heart and say I prefer 10s but still want to do 25s because I’m not satisfied wearing second-place equipment. Not because I *need* better equipment to do my 10s, but because I will never be happy with gear that is simply adequate. My character can’t be “finished” if I settle for 10 man gear.

If a player chooses the 25man format for 13 extra itemization points then it is obvious that the raid size really isn’t that big of a deal.

If they still felt the need to do 25s for the improved gear then it is obvious that the raid size is really not that important to them.


The above statements tell me that Graylo doesn’t understand the mindset of many 10man raiders. Those 13 extra itemization points are not just about being uber, or doing more DPS, or looking cool. Those few points represent the final little step to finish off my character, to put the cherry on top of all my hard work. Not being able to reach that is incredibly frustrating, and in a game where personal progression plays a major part in most people’s gameplay, why wouldn’t it be? Why wouldn’t I feel short changed, settling for 10man gear when there’s 25man gear out there – regardless of whether I “need” it to play, or not? (again, stricters excepted!)


Analogylol

I have a lot of trouble playing alts that aren’t going to “go anywhere” in terms of end game. I can level an alchemy mule, I can level a herbalist/miner, because they will have a purpose. But I can’t level a character if I know I won’t play it at max level. I have to have a reason to continue to improve it, otherwise it’s just pointless busywork. I find myself dropping alts around 50-60 because I realise there’s no point in continuing to level them.

On the other hand, I consider my main, Keeva, to always be in a state of “not quite finished”, and I’m always keen to find the next piece of the puzzle to make her better. It’s what keeps me coming back – the next little goal on the list. And because I know she has a purpose, so far as end game is concerned, then I am happy to put in those hours to keep improving her.

Settling for 10man gear when I know there’s 25man gear out there – it’s like spending hours and hours on a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, but before you get started, you already know that there are 5 pieces missing because your cat took them behind the fridge.

You can see them there, slightly out of reach. You could get them back, I guess, but it would mean moving the fridge, which is something that isn’t terribly easy, and you don’t want to do it.

But if you don’t go do it somehow, you’ll have to settle for a mostly-finished jigsaw puzzle with someone’s left leg missing. Is that good enough?

Are you happy to settle for a jigsaw puzzle is “pretty much” finished? Does it worry you that those pieces are still stuck behind the fridge, or do you consider the puzzle “done”?


Cataclysm: No more stopping short (gear wise)

Blizzard has recognised that people want to do a particular type of raid, but still feel obliged to do the other, in many cases. Graylo’s idea of having two completely different paths of progession, 10 and 25, and making people choose, is nice, but Blizzard knows it won’t work:

We sort of tried that, Gray, and they all chose 25 (meanwhile telling us that they wanted to play 10 but felt stupid for doing so since they were missing out on gear).


Exactly – we can do 10s, enjoy them, feel like we’re progressing and doing well, but there’s always that nagging feeling that we’re missing out on gear that is sitting right there in front of us. We still love 10s, but we feel obliged to reach out and grab the 25 gear if we possibly can. That doesn’t mean we’re lying to ourselves about what we want, or cheating, or being dumb for raiding something that we don’t really want to do. It just means we want to keep moving forward. This isn’t nonsensical, it’s the nature of the game – to continue to improve ourselves.

But in Cataclysm, raid lockouts will mean that 10 man raiders won’t be left feeling like their finish line is 30 yards back from the “real” one. While I have concerns about making 10 and 25man lockouts exclusive, that’s a post for another day. Gear wise, the fact that shared lockouts will never make me choose between sticking with Tier XYZ gear or pushing myself into 25s to get Tier XYZ.5 gear – that makes me very happy. I don’t really care if 25man raiders get more badges than me – I can get the same over time – but having access to the same gear drops out of the raid format that I prefer – I’m quite thrilled about that.

I will never again have to decide between my preferred raid size or being able to “finish” Keeva – something that many 10man raiders have had to do in the past – it’s BiS gear OR your favourite raid size, not both (25man raiders on the other hand don’t ever have to make that choice, they get access to their BiS by default).

Now I’ll be able to do both – raid 10s with close friends, while never feeling like I’m “settling” for runner-up equipment.


You guys can crawl around with the dust bunnies behind the fridge, I’m doing 10s in Cataclysm!

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Recap: before, we had no real reason to use our shifts during most fights. Blizzard stepped in to encourage us to shift more – because that’s what druids do. Cool. So, in Cataclysm, this means we’ll shift once (maybe twice) per fight – but once you’ve done that, you’ll do everything you can to AVOID shifting (or you pay a price).

What is this, I don’t even..

Gimme your hand again, I want to re-stamp it.

(FAIL FAIL FAIL.)


Make it an aura.

Please change it to an aura, Blizzard. The same way you changed Dash so that if we popped into humanoid form, we’d still have Dash if we popped back into Cat form (during the buff).

Change TOL to be a 45s aura that only buffs us while in TOL form. If we have to drop to cat form to sprint, or bear form to take a hit, or travel form to drop a snare – let us do it – but then when we go back into TOL form 10 seconds later, we can catch the end of our TOL buff, so that it’s not completely wasted.

I don’t mind losing part of my buff in order to run (just as any healer would have to stop healing in order to run away). Giving up part of my cooldown for survivability is the same as anyone in the raid – like popping Bloodlust and then having to run from Swarming Shadows. It’s annoying, but you don’t waste the entire thing. Please make it so that the TOL cooldown is like Dash, so that if we shift out and back again (during the 45 seconds), we can get the buff back for the remaining time. In this way, we lose part of our buff, but we don’t forfeit it. I don’t think this is an unreasonable request.

I can deal with my form being put on a cooldown. Honestly, I don’t mind the snare itself. I can handle that – even a horrible 50% – I’ll deal with it. I don’t mind being forced to choose when a buff will be a help or a hinderance, because we’re about to hit the phase of the fight where there are defiles or fire walls. That’s fine. I quite like having to decide when to use each of my forms – as we all should!

I get that you want TOL to be situational, so that we don’t just pop it every the cooldown is up. And that’s good, because I really don’t want another “On Use” trinket ability that I have to weave into my rotation to maximise my HPS. I want there to be an element of decisionmaking there. I agree that it should have some kind of drawback or risk attached, so that it’s not just being used on every cooldown, like a static healing buff. Making the cooldown shorter will make it into more of a “pop whenever it’s up” deal, meh. I’d rather stick with the heavy decisionmaking process, but not forfeit my buff if I do what I’m designed to do – shift!


In conclusion

With all due respect, devs – the statement, “if you waste it, you waste it” is a great big steaming pile of you-know-what.



Figure 1: A visual aid!
(I love WoW Model Viewer.)



TLDR: Let’s hope the “it may not stick” comment comes true. A 50% snare is hideous; a 50% snare that forces us to drop our deep resto cooldown to survive commonplace RNG is just plain terrible.

Premature screeching? Overreaction? Maybe. No doubt people will say “wait for more details” or “we don’t know what the fights will be like.” That’s fair. I still think it’s harsh, though. But I’m not saying “scrap it” – just reconsider the fact that it makes us forfeit our buff if we do what we’re built to do – shift in and out. Please!

Sincerely (no, really)
Keeva


PS: “The other consideration is that we plan on getting a new model that looks more like an ancient and less like a treant, so moving slower might fit.” – this is a direct quote from GC). Refer Figure 1 – since when does size govern movement speed? My multi-passenger mammoth mount prances like a ballerina when I jump, and I’m fairly certain that gnomes don’t run at 500% speed by default. I don’t think the WoW universe subscribes to the usual laws of physics, aerodynamics and whatnot.

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yeah you could have gotten 100x more charms from the ways you were told but atleast you ruined it for everyone else


Oh boy, I just couldn’t help myself… I HAD to respond:

In the spirit of the past 20 pages, there really is only one response to this.


Don’t worry, you can still get charms by grinding mobs or doing your dailies!

*smiles*


Oh man, if only they could have seen the enormous shit-eating grin that I had on my face when I posted it.


PS: The healers didn’t get the Ulduar strategy nerfed, and it’s pretty dumb to pin that on us. We were talking about a completely different issue – most didn’t even care that you could go into Ulduar. I don’t think I ever saw anyone asking for the Ulduar method to be shut down. We just wanted the imbalance in dungeons to be fixed. The healers said “we can’t get them in heroics, please change this” and the response was “go to Ulduar”. We weren’t the ones who brought it to Blizzard’s attention

Anyway – hooray for Blizzard listening to us and doing the right thing!

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• “Just go to Ulduar and use the seige engines for 1000 charms a minute!”

• “QQ, just go do some daily quests, stop whining.”
• “It’s always going to be harder for a non-DPS class to DPS mobs, durr” (wow..)
• “You have an AOE spell, try using it.”
• “Don’t you have a dual spec? Go DPS and quit crying.”
• “onoez, you have to do some WORK to get an achievement? Boohoo” (whoooooooosh, there goes the issue at hand, sailing right over the top of your head…)


Yes – there are ways for you to go out there and use vehicles for 5 billion charms a minute – that’s so awesome! I’m so happy you enjoy doing it that way! But it doesn’t change the fact that during everyday, normal play, a DPS class will receive more charms than a healing class – without even trying. Charms will simply drop into their bags while they do anything – BGs, dungeons, raids, daily quests, grinding. But the healers don’t get any from BGs, dungeons or raids (unless they are DPSing at the same time).

The imbalance is obvious.

Quoting poster Proxima from the forums, who hit the issue right on the nose:

This argument is so stupid it’s mind boggling.

DPS: Do what you always do, get lots of holiday items.

Tank: Do what you always do, get some holiday items.

Healer: Do what you always do, get jack squat. Instead find some way to game the system and listen to idiots on the forums claim this is somehow logical and balanced, not to mention “Working as intended”.

Christ, it’s not like the imbalance isn’t ludicrously obvious.

(my emphasis)

And Carmelita:

If i were a DPS by the end of the two weeks I would have all i needed by doing what I normally do, but being a healer means I have to go out of my way to do dailies that are boring to me and grind mobs that take twice as long for me to kill as compared to a DPS. It truly is the principle of the matter for me.

Spot on.

It’s not that we can’t get charms. It’s that other people will get all the charms they need (and more) without deviating a single tiny bit from their normal daily routine – while healers have to go out and farm for them, either by grinding mobs, doing dailies in overpopulated areas, or by going into Ulduar and killing Flame Leviathan trash. DPSers can do this achievement passively, but healers (and to a lesser extent, tanks) will have to go out and spend extra time farming for the items for the achievement.

Is it a big deal? Not in the grand scheme of things. Does it cripple my ability to get an achievement? No (in fact I already had the achievement, retroactively). But even if I already had the achievement, that doesn’t stop me from feeling annoyed that Blizzard can’t seem to see achievements that are skewed. I don’t like it when things are unfair.

It’s a matter of principle.

YES, I could go quest. Or grind. Or zoom around in Ulduar vehicles, blowing up dwarves for great justice. I’m not unable to get charms. I’m not unable to do this achievement through my own means.

But DPS classes are getting charms fall into their bags as they go about their daily business (dungeons). When I do the same, I get nothing – UNLESS I spend the run doing whatever I can do AOE down mobs OR I go and do vehicle quests or lolfarm the Flame Leviathan trash.

If it’s still not clear that it is unfair – then here’s another example. Your guild does their usual clear of ICC. Trash galore. Charms drop, but ONLY go to the DPS classes – none of the healers get any. How is this fair?

A DPS friend runs a heroic with me. For running the heroic, he is rewarded with 2 Emblems of Frost and 13 Lovely Charms. I did the same heroic, but only get 2 Emblems of Frost. Fair?

Let’s go even further and put it into monetary terms. Bracelets (=10 charms) are selling for about 20g. So for every 10 charms you collect, you make a 19g profit. For running that heroic, my DPS friend received 2 Emblems of Frost and (the equivalent of) ~25g. I get 2 Emblems of Frost.

See?


Once again – yes, I could go do dailies, or grind, or farm Ulduar for my charms. But that is not the issue. The issue is that DPS classes will have the charms fall in their bags during normal, everyday instances that they would have done anyway – while healers have to go out of their way to go get them. The ease of acquiring them is NOT the issue – it’s not hard to go “farm” them – the issue is that it is blatantly unfair that some people are awarded these items almost passively, while others don’t – despite having contributed equally to the kill.

I really truly do not understand how Blizzard can’t see that this is unfair and unbalanced. This is not a “wah wah, life is so unfair, why do you hate healers so much” post. It’s just a simple statement of fact – this achievement is skewed, and it is unfair to healers.

Attaching a quest item to a killing blow shows incredible lack of foresight on Blizzard’s part. And when it’s brought to their attention, frustratingly, they tell us it’s working as intended.


Big deal? No. Disappointing? Very.

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I queued for normal ToC on my feral because I wanted the Black Heart, and being that I wanted in faster, I queued for both tank and dps. When I first did that I expected to go as tank to be honest, but it ended up being that about half the time I ran normal ToC I went as dps. Tanks love this place, and only one tank can go at a time.

The Black Heart dropped. I immediately rolled Need for it.

Then the party immediately said that what I’d done was not cool, that I shouldn’t have queued as dps to roll on a tanking trinket. I explained that I do both and queued as both. In retrospect I could have said something at the start of the instance like “I’m here for the Black Heart. If you don’t like it, leave and I’ll switch over to my tank spec and we’ll requeue for another dps,” but I hadn’t thought it would be a big deal.


I feel for you Hana! Something similar happened to me a couple of weeks ago.

I don’t like playing feral in instances, so I queue Drucie as a healer; both because that’s what I love doing, and because I get fast queues. I roll on both types of gear – healing mostly, so I can heal the heroics more effectively, but I’m also on the lookout for nice feral pieces for Drucie’s main set. She is a feral druid – don’t be fooled – I just don’t want to play feral in 5 mans. Call it a quirk. Besides, healing is what I’m good at, so it’s better for the group all-round.


If you heal the group, you can only roll on healing gear. Ever.

Apparently, and nobody informed me of this earlier, but APPARENTLY you’re only “allowed” to roll on gear that fits the job you are doing *right now*. That’s the rule. I don’t remember seeing this rule anywhere, but I’ve since been told that’s how it works. If you are a healer and you roll on DPS or tank gear, you’re a ninja. Likewise if you tank or DPS a run and you roll on healing gear – ninja.

Oddly, though, if you’re a tank and roll on DPS gear, or a DPS with a tank spec and you roll on tanking gear – nobody bats an eyelid. To demonstrate – here’s an example:



• I ran a normal TOC5. I queued as healer.

• The tank was a pally, and we had a rogue, mage, and DK as DPS.
• Tanking plate dropped. The pally and DK needed. The DK won. Nothing was said.
• DPS leather dropped. I rolled need. The rogue rolled need. I won. Something was said:
  

  
  Figure 1: Tell me how you really feel.


Like Hana, in retrospect, maybe I should have had a macro that blurts out “Hi, I’m here for XYZ, if that’s a problem, speak up now”. But hey, I see tanks rolling on DPS gear, DPS DKs and pallies rolling on tank gear – clearly for their dual spec – and I don’t think to say anything. Evidently, though, if you cross the line and roll on healing gear as DPS, or DPS/tank gear as healer, that’s ninja behaviour.

I’m a fair person. Oftentimes, once I have won something, I will pass on subsequent greens and shard rolls to be nice to the others in the group and give them more winnings. If two items drop from one boss and I would like both, I will take one and pass another. I don’t take +hit gear over casters, and in runs where I’m able to roll on cloth, I don’t do it if clothies need. I’m not a jerk, I’m not greedy, and I’m not a ninja.

I mean, geez, yesterday I felt bad rolling Need on an “of the Eagle” green on my lowbie priest because it was level 23 and I still had half a level before I could wear it.

But “You can only roll on gear that matches your role in the group” is the most stupid idea ever, and I won’t be sticking to it just because DPSers are greedy and don’t want to compete on rolls. Sorry, but I don’t enjoy being feral in 5 mans, so I heal groups to get feral gear. It’s my subscription, and I won’t be forced into a role that I dislike just because you feel morally outraged that I came in wearing a dress but want to roll on your “rogue loot”.

(PS – if he hadn’t been such a jerk, I would have just traded it to him if he really wanted it.)


OHAI, JUST FYI, I’M GONNA TAKE ALL UR LOOTS

I now have a macro. The macro’s icon is a giant blue sad face, to represent QQ over a dual-specced feral/resto druid rolling on DPS leather, waaah.

It says,

“Hi – I queued to heal but my main spec is Feral. I intend to roll Need on both healing and feral loot if the item is an upgrade for me. If this is a problem, please speak up now.”

Perhaps I might change it to include something like, “If there’s something specific you want though.. let me know, I won’t roll against you.”


Personally, from what I have seen, Need rolls are often made by people on behalf of their dual specs, and I don’t think I should have to have a macro to explain my intentions, purely because I am crossing that healing vs dps/tank line. But I refuse to be branded a ninja – so from now on, all groups will get a nice little canned warning note before we start, to avoid any confusion.

It’s unfortunate for some people that they only have one set of gear for both specs and so feel slighted because everyone else wants to collect twice as many items – and I’m also sorry that you have a longer wait time than I do- but the fact is, I put in equal effort, and I have equal right to roll on drops – whether it’s healing or DPS leather. If you have a problem with that, you can wait for a new group, or for a new healer.

At any rate, I’ll be “warning” groups in the future, so nobody can finger-point.

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I love her name; I chose it carefully. I think it’s fitting, for her race. I made her a while ago, because we didn’t have any priests, and because I wanted to try another healer.

I was bored and felt like picking her back up again, and thought maybe I could try some instances using the LFD tool. I LOVE healing instances. I dont mind levelling, but I’d rather be doing groups. I’ve wanted to try another healing class for a while, but worried that levelling up and then having to “learn to heal” all of a sudden at 80 would be hard, because generally it’s difficult to get groups for low level dungeons (so my group experience would be very limited).

So I’m loving this new tool. I can quest for a few minutes, then get a group. Sometimes the queue is instant. Port straight there, get almost a full level in the dungeon, and go straight back to what I was doing. I went from 14 to 22 after doing a handful of dungeons and a smattering of quests (and I get to skip all of the quests that I particularly hate – because I’m levelling so quickly that I don’t have to do them – yay!)

I’m having fun, healing groups, and I’m learning about another healing class, which can only be a good thing.


Waltzing into Stormwind

One of my first memories of the game was being run through Deadmines and the Stockade when I was a brand new Night Elf druid. My friends, being veterans of the game, took for granted that everyone knows their way around Stormwind and EVERYONE knows where the Stockade is. They zoned in while I trailed quite far behind, trying to negotiate my way around Stormwind. They disappeared off my map, and then impatiently asked why I was taking so long to get there. Indignantly (defensively), I told them I had no idea where they were. They had to zone out to show me where to go.

I think, perhaps, Blizzard has overlooked this kind of problem when implementing the new LFD (Looking for Dungeon) system for low level instances. Some people simply have no idea how to get to these dungeons – or it’s been so long, they might as well have never been there. Some dungeons are easy enough to find, but the entrance portals are hidden inside a maze of winding tunnels and passageways.

Obviously this isn’t a problem when you first join the group, you get ported right there. Hordies can do Deadmines and The Stockade without ever having to set foot in Westfall or Stormwind. We can do Gnomeregan without having to do the (still bugged) teleporter quest. Alliance players can do Ragefire Chasm, and those on PvP realms don’t have to run the Scarlet Monastery gauntlet anymore. How hot is that? I thought it was absolutely fantastic – I get to do all these old school instances, without the hassle of travelling all the way there.

But what happens when the group wipes, and we have to run back?

Big problems.


“I don’t know how to get back to the instance.”

Yesterday I joined a Wailing Caverns group. I immediately realised they were part way through the instance; their character arrows were off somewhere to the south east. Low level dungeons don’t have maps; so I had no way of working out exactly where they were. I started running to where I thought they were, and immediately encountered a patrolling mob that hadn’t been killed earlier, plus a bunch of mobs. How did they go that way if they didn’t clear any of this?

The pally was dead (somewhere) and asking if I could rez. The mage had to come and collect me, to show me where they were. Turns out they had only partly cleared some trash up the top, then dropped down into the trench. Ok, no problem.

We ran to meet up with the rest of the group, and were met with a huge stream of mobs pouring out into the open. Somehow we managed to survive, although the mage died. I was completely OOM (go go lowbie priest mana), so I sat to drink. “Rez” came the whisper from the mage. Grr.

The pally too kept asking for a rez. Problem: he had released, so we had to search for a body on the ground. I guess WC all looks the same, because nobody could remember where he died (it was before I arrived). He could have been anywhere, lying under some nondescript fern.

Pally: Rez me?
Me: Where did you die?
Pally: (shaman) should know.
Shaman: I can’t find your body.
Pally: It’s where you were arguing earlier.

(alarm bells are sounnnndiinnnng)

Pally: How do I get back to the instance?

After 10 minutes of running in circles, and the pally constantly asking how to get back in, I left. I hated doing it.. but I couldn’t afford to spend half an hour searching for one person OR trying to give directions to the portal through party chat. They hadn’t even killed a single boss yet. It didn’t bode well for the rest of the run.


Pats, corpse runs, hidden portals

Patrolling mobs, stupidly long corpse runs, portals that are difficult to find.. they are all a massive stumbling block for low level groups.

I don’t want to make the game super simple – corpse runs are a small and necessary time-sink, I understand that. But when people are brand new to a lot of these places, they will often simply drop group rather than try to find their way back to the instance portal.

My first three instances yesterday all fell short of the final boss because it was too hard to recover from a wipe or someone having to run back. In Deadmines, people running back have to find their way from Sentinel Hill, into the building in Moonbrook, then through the maze of tunnels before the instance portal. Once you’re back in, if you take a wrong turn, you’ll likely get killed by uncleared miners; but even if you go the right way, patrols spawn behind the group, so you’ll be the one to stumble on them. Plus, the instance is very, very long – some people just don’t have the patience.

In one group, we wiped literally on the pack before the final boss, and everyone dropped group because it was too hard to run all the way back. In another group, we had to boot someone for being a ninja/facepuller/bad, but then realised it was best not to invite a replacement because it would take them 10 minutes to get to us, and they would likely die to pats anyway. In a few groups, it has been easier to 4man the instance rather than bring in a replacement 5th.

Wailing Caverns probably speaks for itself – it’s hard to find your way back, and I had two groups fail and break up because it was too hard to go back and try again. The portal is pretty hard to find if you don’t know the place. Once, I ran WC, we wiped, and the group told me to run back and rez them, because they didn’t know the way!

Now, the Stockade is great – a very short instance, nice and linear, portal is easy to find – but (as a Horde character) if you die, you spawn at the Eastvale Logging Camp, on the opposite side of Elwynn. FAIL.




Consider these dungeons, and either how much of a trek it is from a graveyard, how difficult it is to find the portal if you’re not familiar with the area, or how painful it is to run back through the dungeon to where you were fighting:



• Deadmines

• Wailing Caverns
• Maraudon
• BRD
• Blackfathom Deeps
• Sunken Temple
• Gnomeregan
• Uldaman


Imagine having to run back through BRD to the group, if nobody can rez you. All you have is a vague directional marker telling you where your group is. Goodie! As much as I love that instance (I really do), it’s massive. Nobody likes running back through that.

I’m a seasoned player, I’ve been to these places many, many times – but even I cringe at the thought of having to find that stupid Maraudon portal. As for Gnomeregan – well, even I’d be tempted to drop group if we wiped on that. Trying to find my own way in would be hard enough; trying to give directions to others through party chat.. uugghhhh.

They’re all awesome dungeons and I love doing them – but recovering from a death, or bringing in a new player – it can be too much hassle for a lot of groups, and they collapse rather than pushing on. Seems it’s easier to just drop and requeue than to run back and press on.


Make it (dare I say it..) easier

Ok, so it’s already pretty darn easy on groups. You get ported right to the instance, no travelling, no PvP, no time wasted. Fantastic.

But seriously, doing all of these instances, getting almost all the way through and then having your group dissolve because people don’t know how to run back, or the instance is incredibly long, or there’s a pat that keeps killing your replacement 5th, forcing the group to run back to escort them through.. it’s so frustrating.

I don’t want Blizzard to hold our hands and lead us through instances. But I do wish it was slightly easier to get back to the instance after a death. And, if you are replacing someone who left the group, I wish there was a way for you to perhaps port to the group to join them, rather than having to negotiate pats, or have someone come back to collect you because you have no idea how to find the group.

Yesterday I started doing specific dungeons instead of randoms, because it would constantly serve me up with Wailing Caverns, and most of those runs ended in frustration.

I really want to run all of the instances – I miss them. Some of them are pretty epic places, and I think it’s great that the LFD tool gives them a new lease on life – but I’m dreading wipe recovery in places like BRD, Gnomer, and Mara, among others. Blizzard – please consider closer graveyards, or something to make it slightly easier to at least find the instance portal again.


Oh well – onward and upward, little priest!

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• Cataclysm: Tree of Life hobble fail
• My plans until Cataclysm


FOS was a bit tough on my terrible regen, but nothing I couldn’t handle.

The problem was that on every trash pull, each of the DPS would attack a different mob. It’s a huge free-for-all. On packs of 4-5 mobs, you could guarantee that every person in the group had aggro – the tank from trying to tank, the DPS from each picking their own target, and poor me from healing those impromptu tanks.

So I speak up. I try to be nice, because you can never tell if people are just really new – and I’m not a mean or rude person, and I try not to judge people harshly. So I just said, “Can you guys stick to one target please, I can’t heal everyone at the same time.” Which is the truth – they were making it so I had to heal every person at once, which was just making it harder than it had to be.

We keep going. It happens again, and again. I see lightning bolts fly towards one mob, bullets heading for another, and the warrior off in a corner bashing on some other mob. I ask them again to stop splitting DPS; they all claim to be hitting the same target. Now, I know I’ve said lately that I may need a new glasses prescription, but I’m pretty sure I can see clearly when lightning bolts (not chain lightning, lightning bolts) are hitting one mob, and bullets are hitting another.

I’ve had enough. I tell them flat out – “If you guys don’t stop splitting DPS I’m just going to go. You’re making it hard on the tank and healer, harder than it has to be.”

In hindsight, I should have just left. Good old hindsight.


lol, take ur blues and leave, scrub

“Take your blues and leave if you want, stop bitching.” says the (unguilded) warrior – who, not five minutes ago, had fallen spectacularly and stupidly to his death by walking off a platform.



Figure 1: The Gravity Boss claims another hapless victim.


For the record, Mr Warrior, my blue gear may mean that I look terrible and that I have to drink quite frequently, but evidently your epic gear doesn’t stop you doing stupid things like wombling off great heights like an epic plate-wearing lemming.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (…splotch.)

Protip: blues don’t make baddies, and epics don’t erase stupidity. Perhaps you might like to invest in a Skyguard’s Drape for your next trip to Forge of Souls? Best to play it safe.


On the next pull, predictably, every person has aggro, and I die to healing aggro. The tank questions me.

“How did you die? Too busy typing? :P”
“I was healing people who shouldn’t have been tanking :)”
“I had all the mobs.”
“No, I had aggro, that’s how I died.”
“No, I had aggro on everything.”


Preeettty sure I can tell when something is bashing my face in.

That’s “aggro”, right?

So I had a tank who didn’t know who in the group has aggro (and thinks he is doing a great job), and three DPSers who keep choosing different targets but swear til they’re blue in the face that they’re assisting the tank every time. Ughhhhhhhhhhhhh.

But worse – when you trying to turn things around, when you ask them to single target, they laugh at you, and you’re the bad one. That’s what drives me absolutely up the wall, I can’t stand it. Like the time I was driving, came to an intersection, and waited (correctly) for another car to turn in front of me, as she had right of way on the continuing road. She waited for me to keep going, but she was meant to, so I stayed there. Finally she threw her hands in the air and turned, and as she passed me, gave me a disgusted look (which, in WoW, would have been the equivalent of saying “l2drive noob!!1111″). She was the stupid one who didn’t know the road rules, yet she drove away thinking *I* was the baddie. I hate that – when someone else is an idiot, but they walk away thinking you’re the dumb one (and they likely didn’t learn anything from it, either). GRRR!!

So the moral of the story, kids – is that if you’re in with a group of baddies, and you ask them nicely to stop doing something that is making things painful, you will probably be dubbed a blues-wearing, bitchy noob. Honestly, 99% of my PUGs so far have been great.. but next time I get one like that, I think I’ll just leave and save myself the frustration.

Which is sad really, because I like helping new people. If nobody wants to endure the frustration of trying to teach people the fundamentals of group play (like please single target mobs down, kthx), then the truly bad players are just going to keep being bad, and they’ll just keep driving other people nuts.

I don’t leave groups on a whim because I don’t like the instance, or because I think someone in the group is a “noob”, etc. But – if I get another awful group like that – where everyone is doing the wrong thing but A) think they’re awesome and B) refuse to do things properly.. I think I’ll just save myself the headache, and drop.

Possibly Related Posts:

• A 10man raider in a 25man guild
• Cataclysm: Tree of Life hobble fail
• My plans until Cataclysm